[chandler-users] Re: chandler-users Digest, Vol 15,
Issue 22 (Auto-Assignment)
Carl Lemp
carl.lemp at snet.net
Tue Mar 25 17:26:00 PDT 2008
It sounds like we're all on basically the same page with regards to a first attempt at auto-assignment.
Initially, since I'm new to Chandler, I'll just recreate in Chandler in the easiest way possible, something like Agenda's auto-assignment to categories.
By easy I mean both easy to create and change for users and easy to implement by using as much of the existing Chandler features as possible.
>From Mimi's answers, that sounds like it might be just an extension to the search mechanism and the details view that already exists in Chandler. The extension would allow a user to do a search and save the search results as a search based collection. The search-based collections would remain up-to-date as items are added or deleted after it was created. The initial plug-in could then be expanded to allow more complex search/query terms, later; possibly by using the detail view that already exists for the items. In this context, the detail view would be associated with a collection and the data entered would define the criteria that items must match to be auto-assigned to the collection. I'm not sure how easy it would be to enter criteria through that form but it's as good a starting point as any.
A design based on searching would not have Agenda's category tree since each set of auto-assignment criteria would be associated with the collections and not in a central place where they could all be viewed together but for me, it would make Chandler much more usable for my purposes.
Carl
----- Original Message ----
From: "chandler-users-request at osafoundation.org" <chandler-users-request at osafoundation.org>
To: chandler-users at osafoundation.org
Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 3:00:06 PM
Subject: chandler-users Digest, Vol 15, Issue 23
Send chandler-users mailing list submissions to
chandler-users at osafoundation.org
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/chandler-users
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
chandler-users-request at osafoundation.org
You can reach the person managing the list at
chandler-users-owner at osafoundation.org
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of chandler-users digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. Re: chandler-users Digest, Vol 15, Issue 22 (Carl Lemp)
2. Re-order everything (Marcelo de Moraes Serpa)
3. Upgrade Chandler Desktop to 0.7.5 to avoid sharing problems
(Randy Letness)
4. Install problem (Kevin Cuthbert)
5. Google Calendar: Method Not Allowed (Stephen Simon)
6. Newbie comments on How I use Chandler (Gregory Louie)
7. Re: Install problem (Davor Cubranic)
8. Re: Is Chandler the Successor to Lotus Agenda? (Jim Cook)
9. {Survey] What would you like to auto-file? (Mimi Yin)
10. Re: Re: chandler-users Digest, Vol 15, Issue 22 (Davor Cubranic)
11. RE: Re: chandler-users Digest, Vol 15, Issue 22 (Ken Smith)
12. RE: Re: chandler-users Digest, Vol 15, Issue 22 (Mark A. Weiss)
13. Re: {Survey] What would you like to auto-file? (Carl Lemp)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 12:55:12 -0700 (PDT)
From: Carl Lemp <carl.lemp at snet.net>
Subject: [chandler-users] Re: chandler-users Digest, Vol 15, Issue 22
To: chandler-users at osafoundation.org
Message-ID: <258129.14475.qm at web58313.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To everyone interested in auto-assignment of items:
It sounds like there are at least a few of us that have been patiently waiting for Chandler to take on some of the capabilities that Agenda had so long ago. I posted similar questions a few weeks ago and Grant Baillie of OSAF has contacted me about building a plug-in for auto-assignment of items to collections. If he can point me in the right direction to get started, I'm willing to give it a shot. Here was his first set of questions:
>So far as person-week estimates go, I guess it depends on which items
>you want to make auto-assignments on (e.g. the quick entry field?
>incoming mail? any newly created item?). Can you elaborate on what you
>had in mind, especially w.r.t. where you would expect to find
>collection names, and how the synonyms would be set up?
and my answer:
Ideally, I'd like all items to be auto-assigned either as they are added or, on demand if there is no easy way to hook into events generated when an item is added. I looked through the Chandler wiki and saw a couple of references to rule based collections and there have been a couple of references to rules by Mimi on the user list. If rule based collections are planned or have already been worked on, is there anything to start from there since what I'm looking for is just a specific type of rule based collection?
What I picture as a first step is a Properties item on the right-click menu for the collections in the side-bar. On a properties dialog, I could add names/phrases to match (synonyms) for that collection and enable auto-assignment for the collection name and/or the synonyms. Something like the syntax and capabilities of Google's advanced search page would be convenient and easily understood by everybody; only using Triage status and item type instead of Language and File Type. Any items that matched would be assigned to the collection. In addition to ensuring that an item showed up everywhere it was relevant, this would allow me to treat collections as views into the database of items. To work well as a view, the rules would have to be applied to every item in the database so that I could define a new collection for an existing database and Chandler would search the entire database to assign all matching items to the new collection.
An now a few questions for anyone who's interested in this feature:
Does this fit with everyone elses expectations of the way auto-assignment should behave?
How complicated would you need the assignment rules to be?
Do you need the unassign actions from Agenda (When item is assigned to X, unassign it from Y.)?
Regards,
Carl
----- Original Message ----
From: "chandler-users-request at osafoundation.org" <chandler-users-request at osafoundation.org>
To: chandler-users at osafoundation.org
Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 3:00:04 PM
Subject: chandler-users Digest, Vol 15, Issue 22
Send chandler-users mailing list submissions to
chandler-users at osafoundation.org
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/chandler-users
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
chandler-users-request at osafoundation.org
You can reach the person managing the list at
chandler-users-owner at osafoundation.org
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of chandler-users digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. RE: Is Chandler the Successor to Lotus Agenda? (Jim Cook)
2. Re: Is Chandler the Successor to Lotus Agenda? (Davor Cubranic)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2008 18:58:21 -0400
From: Jim Cook <jimcook at panix.com>
Subject: RE: [chandler-users] Is Chandler the Successor to Lotus
Agenda?
To: Chandler users <chandler-users at osafoundation.org>
Message-ID: <20080323230328.270281628F at mailbackend.panix.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
<snip>
Like Mark Weiss and (undoubtedly) many others on this list, I've been
eagerly awaiting Chandler as the reincarnation of Agenda. Although
I've played with a few releases over the years, I haven't committed
myself for two main reasons: (1) Chandler doesn't auto-assign new
items, and (2) there are so many bugs. I do realize that Chandler is
arguably no buggier than any new software, and I acknowledge OSAF for
addressing Chandler's bugs publicly. But auto-assignment is
essential for me, because my work is so unstructured (and arguably
unstructureable).
Anyway, I'm not a programmer, so this may be a silly question, but
why has it been so difficult to implement auto-assignment in
Chandler? Did it just become a non-priority vs calendering and
collaboration? Or was there something about running on DOS (which
was barely more than a file loader) that facilitated doing
auto-assignment in Agenda?
And truly, thanks for all your work. I'm still eagerly (and
optimistically) awaiting Chandler 1.0.
At 12:45 PM 3/23/2008, you wrote:
>Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
>Davor,
>
>Thanks for the response. I too used Agenda and then Ecco Pro. I
>switched to Ecco after the company I was working for at the time
>adopted the Windows 3.1 platform. We were having problems running
>Agenda from Windows. If I remember correctly it crashed a lot. I
>moved away from Ecco after I purchased a Phillips Velo to replace my
>Zaurus. I couldn't sync the Velo to my Ecco data. I switched to
>Outlook about that time.
>
>You mentioned you were still using Agenda for some
>applications. Can I ask if and how you either print of export the
>data? I tend to write a lot of notes for my three businesses and
>community activities that I am engaged in. Currently I have a
>folder of paper notes looking for a searchable home. The notes are
>tasks and are not time/date driven. I Googled "Lotus Agenda" a few
>weeks ago to see if people were still using it. That's how I found
>about Chandler.
>
>Agenda would be the perfect solution for my application but I am
>reluctant to use it if I can't print or export my data. Any
>thoughts on how you address these issues would be most appreciated.
>
>Thanks!
>
>Mark
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: chandler-users-bounces at osafoundation.org
>[mailto:chandler-users-bounces at osafoundation.org] On Behalf Of Davor Cubranic
>Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 1:21 AM
>To: Chandler users
>Subject: Re: [chandler-users] Is Chandler the Successor to Lotus Agenda?
>
>Wow, has it really been that long since that announcement?
>
>But I agree, that's what first led me to Chandler, too. And there was a
>lot of Agenda in Chandler initially, reflecting Kapor's influence and
>those announcements, and actually there still is, underneath the UI.
>(See its data engine, with Items, attributes, and relations. I
>sometimes wonder if Chandler's UI could be ripped out and the engine
>used to re-implement Agenda's features and focus.) But calendaring took
>on more prominence with time, and collaboration has had as high a
>priority as personal information management as long as I've been
>following the project. Those are not bad things, either -- the way we
>use computers today is way different than what we did in the DOS years.
>
>And while Chandler is not Agenda, it still works well for me and I use
>it daily as my main information manager. It's better for keeping track
>of tasks, events, and to-dos than for pure information tidbits, so I
>still have some files that I started, and still maintain, in Agenda --
>they just don't translate that well to Chandler's work model and UI.
>Ditto with other tidbits that I still keep in EccoPro (esp. my address
>book!). But honestly, I don't know of another open-source calendaring
>or information management project that works better. (If you do, let me
>know. :-)
>
>Davor
>
>On Saturday 22 March 2008 18:48:47 Mark A. Weiss wrote:
> > Thanks Davor.
> >
> > I was searching Lotus Agenda and found Mitch Kapor's weblog from
> > 10/18/02 where he wrote:
> >
> > "The product, which is central to the whole undertaking, is a new
> > take on the Personal Information Manager. It will handle email,
> > appointments, contacts and tasks, as well as be used to exchange
> > information with other people, and do it all in the spirit of Lotus
> > Agenda, about which more here and here. Agenda, for those who aren't
> > familiar with it, was a DOS product I designed (along with Jerry
> > Kaplan) in the late 1980's which introduced a new kind of database
> > optimized for entering small items of information in a free-form
> > manner, and then adding organizational categories on-the-fly. It was
> > much beloved by a few, despite (or perhaps because) being abandoned
> > by Lotus."
> >
> > That search led me down the path to other postings that tied Agenda
> > to Chandler. OSAF changed direction somewhere down the line. It's a
> > shame because an open source program with Agenda capabilities would
> > be an incredible asset. I imagine that many of the current Agenda
> > users would find it valuable too.
> >
> > Anyway, thanks again for your help.
> >
> > Mark
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: chandler-users-bounces at osafoundation.org
> > [mailto:chandler-users-bounces at osafoundation.org] On Behalf Of Davor
> > Cubranic Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2008 8:07 PM
> > To: Chandler users
> > Subject: Re: [chandler-users] Is Chandler the Successor to Lotus
> > Agenda?
> >
> > On Saturday 22 March 2008 15:52:21 Mark A. Weiss wrote:
> > > Thanks for the response. I am not a programmer, just a plain old
> > > end user. If the ability to parse information to categories on the
> > > fly is not a core part of Chandler's features, why the talk about
> > > it being the successor to Agenda?
> >
> > I don't think I've heard anyone from OSAF make that claim in the last
> > five years, if not longer. See blog.osafoundation.org for their (I'm
> > just a Chandler user, too) current vision and direction.
> >
> > Davor
> > _______________________________________________
> > chandler-users mailing list
> > chandler-users at osafoundation.org
> > http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/chandler-users
>_______________________________________________
>chandler-users mailing list
>chandler-users at osafoundation.org
>http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/chandler-users
>_______________________________________________
>chandler-users mailing list
>chandler-users at osafoundation.org
>http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/chandler-users
=
Jim Cook <jimcook at panix.com>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: PGP.sig
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 487 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://lists.osafoundation.org/pipermail/chandler-users/attachments/20080323/c8b2d052/PGP-0001.pgp
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2008 16:22:25 -0700
From: Davor Cubranic <cubranic at cs.ubc.ca>
Subject: Re: [chandler-users] Is Chandler the Successor to Lotus
Agenda?
To: Chandler users <chandler-users at osafoundation.org>
Message-ID: <200803231622.25306.cubranic at cs.ubc.ca>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
On Sunday 23 March 2008 09:45:02 Mark A. Weiss wrote:
> You mentioned you were still using Agenda for some applications. Can
> I ask if and how you either print of export the data? I tend to
> write a lot of notes for my three businesses and community activities
> that I am engaged in. Currently I have a folder of paper notes
> looking for a searchable home. The notes are tasks and are not
> time/date driven. I Googled "Lotus Agenda" a few weeks ago to see if
> people were still using it. That's how I found about Chandler.
No, I don't either print or export the data from Agenda. The two Agenda
files that I still use have become sort of "write-only". :-) Fairly
regularly, I enter interesting-sounding wines recommended in a local
paper's wine column, as well as interesting books that I see in book
reviews. But I don't go back to older entries that often, to tell you
the truth, although it does happen every now and then.
Davor
------------------------------
_______________________________________________
chandler-users mailing list
chandler-users at osafoundation.org
http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/chandler-users
End of chandler-users Digest, Vol 15, Issue 22
**********************************************
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://lists.osafoundation.org/pipermail/chandler-users/attachments/20080324/122cfec1/attachment.htm
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 17:03:00 -0300
From: "Marcelo de Moraes Serpa" <celoserpa at gmail.com>
Subject: [chandler-users] Re-order everything
To: "Chandler users" <chandler-users at osafoundation.org>
Message-ID:
<1e5bcefd0803241303w533fe38cg26faea591bb53171 at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Ok, the title of this message were "re-order the items in the new section of
triage", you'll understand why I changed it when you reach the end of it :)
The re-ordering feature for the tags/collections, albeit something simple
(and that I think should have been implemented eras ago) is a really nice
addition! Thanks for this.
Now, I really miss the **freedom** of drag-and-dropping my items around in
the items listing.
Someone (me?) once asked for re-ordering of the NOW items, but it would also
be nice to re-order LATER items and even DONE items (why not?).
Also, if the triage view is activated, drag-n-dropping an item from the LAST
group to another group (NOW or DONE), would automatically change its state
to NOW or DONE (an alternative way to change an item's state).
I think that it would be a really nice addition.
Marcelo.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://lists.osafoundation.org/pipermail/chandler-users/attachments/20080324/ec947e49/attachment.html
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 16:14:59 -0500
From: Randy Letness <randy at osafoundation.org>
Subject: [chandler-users] Upgrade Chandler Desktop to 0.7.5 to avoid
sharing problems
To: Chandler users <chandler-users at osafoundation.org>
Message-ID: <47E819D3.5050302 at osafoundation.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Chandler Server 0.13.0 includes a major security fix that required some
minor client side changes. These changes were implemented in Chandler
Desktop 0.7.5. When Chandler Hub is updated to version 0.13.0 of the
server, users of Chandler Desktop prior to version 0.7.5 may experience
sharing problems. To prevent such problems, all users of Chandler Hub
are encouraged to upgrade to the latest version of Chandler Desktop, 0.7.5.
Chandler Desktop 0.7.5 is available for download for Windows, Mac, and
Linux at:
http://chandlerproject.org/download
-Randy
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2008 17:04:35 +0200
From: Kevin Cuthbert <kevin at knysna.sa.com>
Subject: [chandler-users] Install problem
To: chandler-users at osafoundation.org
Message-ID: <47E67183.8050700 at knysna.sa.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
*Hi,*
Followed the instructions for the Linux installation;
ie downloaded file and then;
tar zxf Chandler_linux_0.7.5.dev-r16286-checkpoint20080311.tar.gz
Got the following error message;
gzip: stdin: unexpected end of file
tar: Unexpected EOF in archive
tar: Unexpected EOF in archive
tar: Error is not recoverable: exiting now
I run Ubuntu 6.06 Dapper Drake.
What am I doing wrong?
*Regards
KC*
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://lists.osafoundation.org/pipermail/chandler-users/attachments/20080323/ee57fa04/attachment.htm
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 09:01:16 -0700
From: "Stephen Simon" <stephen at ssimon.org>
Subject: [chandler-users] Google Calendar: Method Not Allowed
To: chandler-users at osafoundation.org
Message-ID:
<c90659340803240901w5e97b114jc349530bd442810d at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hello,
I'm also just starting with Chandler, and I'm also having this "Method Not
Allowed" error... Are we doing something wrong?
Thanks,
Steve.
hello,
yes I'm a newbie to chandler, so a little patients would be appreciated.
I'm tryingto subscribe to my work calender hosted on google apps for
domains. when I try to subcribe I get this response:
https://www.google.com/calendar/ical/jmoss%40asm-rss-rep.com/private-8a2620092a1d04b44cbccc1fa8211189/basic.ics
Method Not Allowed
File "C:\Program Files (x86)\Chandler0.7.4.1\util\task.py", line 65, in
__threadStart
result = self.run()
File "C:\Program Files
(x86)\Chandler0.7.4.1\application\dialogs\SubscribeCollection.py", line 299,
in run
activity=task.activity, filters=task.filters)
File "C:\Program Files
(x86)\Chandler0.7.4.1\parcels\osaf\sharing\__init__.py", line 616, in
subscribe
inspection = inspect(view, url, username=username, password=password)
File "C:\Program Files
(x86)\Chandler0.7.4.1\parcels\osaf\sharing\utility.py", line 142, in inspect
result = _catchError(getOPTIONS)
File "C:\Program Files
(x86)\Chandler0.7.4.1\parcels\osaf\sharing\utility.py", line 138, in
_catchError
raise e
<class 'zanshin.http.HTTPError'> <<class 'zanshin.http.HTTPError'> (405)
Method Not Allowed>
yes I know I just posted my private link which I already changed .
but could someone decipher this and tell me if this is the program or my
dumb newbie mistake?
thanks for your time and a really great program.
jerry
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://lists.osafoundation.org/pipermail/chandler-users/attachments/20080324/7724403e/attachment.html
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2008 12:01:36 -0400
From: Gregory Louie <gregory.louie at gmail.com>
Subject: [chandler-users] Newbie comments on How I use Chandler
To: chandler-users at osafoundation.org
Message-ID: <20080322160136.1120.83676 at gh-louie.orange.k12.nc.us>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Skipped content of type multipart/alternative
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 16:00:27 -0700 (PDT)
From: Davor Cubranic <cubranic at cs.ubc.ca>
Subject: Re: [chandler-users] Install problem
To: Chandler users <chandler-users at osafoundation.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0803241558410.447 at granville.cs.ubc.ca>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
Your browser probably saved the uncompressed version of the file, despite
the .gz in the name. Try changing the "zxf" to "xf" when running tar.
Davor
On Sun, 23 Mar 2008, Kevin Cuthbert wrote:
> *Hi,*
>
> Followed the instructions for the Linux installation;
>
> ie downloaded file and then;
>
> tar zxf Chandler_linux_0.7.5.dev-r16286-checkpoint20080311.tar.gz
>
> Got the following error message;
>
> gzip: stdin: unexpected end of file
> tar: Unexpected EOF in archive
> tar: Unexpected EOF in archive
> tar: Error is not recoverable: exiting now
>
> I run Ubuntu 6.06 Dapper Drake.
>
> What am I doing wrong?
>
> *Regards
>
> KC*
>
>
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 19:10:27 -0400
From: Jim Cook <jimcook at panix.com>
Subject: Re: [chandler-users] Is Chandler the Successor to Lotus
Agenda?
To: Chandler users <chandler-users at osafoundation.org>
Message-ID: <20080324231350.4738E1DA90 at mailbackend.panix.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Please see my responses interleaved below.
At 03:55 PM 3/24/2008, Carl Lemp <carl.lemp at snet.net> wrote:
>To everyone interested in auto-assignment of items:
>It sounds like there are at least a few of us that have been
>patiently waiting for Chandler to take on some of the capabilities
>that Agenda had so long ago. I posted similar questions a few weeks
>ago and Grant Baillie of OSAF has contacted me about building a
>plug-in for auto-assignment of items to collections. If he can
>point me in the right direction to get started, I'm willing to give
>it a shot. Here was his first set of questions:
>
> >So far as person-week estimates go, I guess it depends on which items
> >you want to make auto-assignments on (e.g. the quick entry field?
> >incoming mail? any newly created item?). Can you elaborate on what you
> >had in mind, especially w.r.t. where you would expect to find
> >collection names, and how the synonyms would be set up?
>and my answer:
>Ideally, I'd like all items to be auto-assigned either as they are
>added or, on demand if there is no easy way to hook into events
>generated when an item is added. I looked through the Chandler wiki
>and saw a couple of references to rule based collections and there
>have been a couple of references to rules by Mimi on the user
>list. If rule based collections are planned or have already been
>worked on, is there anything to start from there since what I'm
>looking for is just a specific type of rule based collection?
>
>What I picture as a first step is a Properties item on the
>right-click menu for the collections in the side-bar. On a
>properties dialog, I could add names/phrases to match (synonyms) for
>that collection and enable auto-assignment for the collection name
>and/or the synonyms. Something like the syntax and capabilities of
>Google's advanced search page would be convenient and easily
>understood by everybody; only using Triage status and item type
>instead of Language and File Type. Any items that matched would be
>assigned to the collection. In addition to ensuring that an item
>showed up everywhere it was relevant, this would allow me to treat
>collections as views into the database of items. To work well as a
>view, the rules would have to be applied to every item in the
>database so that I could define a new collection for an existing
>database and Chandler would search the entire database to assign all
>matching items to the new collection.
>An now a few questions for anyone who's interested in this feature:
>
>Does this fit with everyone elses expectations of the way
>auto-assignment should behave?
Yes. I would like new items to be auto-assigned to existing
collections, and existing items to be auto-assigned to new
collections. I imagine collections to work like views in
SQL. Having become engaged in this thread, I've started thinking
about putting all my stuff in SQL, but the user interface would be a
query browser, which would probably be too cumbersome for routine use.
>How complicated would you need the assignment rules to be?
I'd like them to be flexible (ideally, as complicated as I need them to be).
>Do you need the unassign actions from Agenda (When item is assigned
>to X, unassign it from Y.)?
I'd like assignments to persist until collections are removed.
>Regards,
>
>Carl
<snip>
=
Jim Cook <jimcook at panix.com>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: PGP.sig
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 487 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://lists.osafoundation.org/pipermail/chandler-users/attachments/20080324/5a2ca301/PGP-0001.pgp
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 16:45:16 -0700
From: Mimi Yin <mimi at osafoundation.org>
Subject: [chandler-users] {Survey] What would you like to auto-file?
To: Chandler users <chandler-users at osafoundation.org>
Cc: Carl Lemp <clemp2002 at yahoo.com>, "Mark A. Weiss"
<MAWeiss at rencomm.com>
Message-ID: <7F5319D5-E65D-416C-AF72-1F0EE491C792 at osafoundation.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
Hi,
I've moved the design/implementation discussion for auto-
categorization over to the Chandler Development List - http://
lists.osafoundation.org/pipermail/chandler-dev/2008-March/009799.html
As that discussion unfolds, I'd like to collect some specific
examples of the kinds of things people would like to auto-file.
For example:
- When I type "Call:" at the beginning of the Title of an Item, I
want the Note to be auto-filed into a Calls collection.
Mimi
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 21:40:11 -0700
From: Davor Cubranic <cubranic at cs.ubc.ca>
Subject: Re: [chandler-users] Re: chandler-users Digest, Vol 15, Issue
22
To: Chandler users <chandler-users at osafoundation.org>
Message-ID: <200803242140.11355.cubranic at cs.ubc.ca>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
I think you're expanding Agenda's auto-assignment to categories (which
assigned simply on occurrence of words or phrases in an item's
description) to smart folders/filters. The latter needs a more
complicated UI, especially because it will end up needing some kind of
graphical construction of those expressions (like in EccoPro) to be
really user-friendly. Not that having smart folders wouldn't be nice...
Davor
On Monday 24 March 2008 12:55:12 Carl Lemp wrote:
> What I picture as a first step is a Properties item on the
> right-click menu for the collections in the side-bar. On a
> properties dialog, I could add names/phrases to match (synonyms) for
> that collection and enable auto-assignment for the collection name
> and/or the synonyms. Something like the syntax and capabilities of
> Google's advanced search page would be convenient and easily
> understood by everybody; only using Triage status and item type
> instead of Language and File Type. Any items that matched would be
> assigned to the collection. In addition to ensuring that an item
> showed up everywhere it was relevant, this would allow me to treat
> collections as views into the database of items. To work well as a
> view, the rules would have to be applied to every item in the
> database so that I could define a new collection for an existing
> database and Chandler would search the entire database to assign all
> matching items to the new collection.
------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 10:17:45 -0400
From: "Ken Smith" <ksmith at steakescape.com>
Subject: RE: [chandler-users] Re: chandler-users Digest, Vol 15, Issue
22
To: "Chandler users" <chandler-users at osafoundation.org>
Message-ID:
<4E47C599890A4C4BB14702CC2400AA18B3B4A3 at Escape2.steakescape.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I am a neophyte when it comes to programming, etc. but have been on an
endless search for the ultimate PIM for 20 years. I have been following
the development of Chandler and have to commend the excellent work of
the Chandler Team and especially their commitment to the sometimes
challenging situations that present themselves in an open source
development environment. The recent discussions of incorporating the
Agenda attributes into Chandler might be particularly challenging, given
that this modeling should probably have been done much earlier in the
process.
I have to admit that my interest in Chandler initially grew from my
attachment to Agenda. I have been secretly pining for someone to
recreate Agenda in today's technology and have been watching Chandler
with those hopes in mind. The recent discussions of incorporating the
unique aspects of Agenda are extremely exciting and I would strongly
encourage it's continuance.
I am a busy executive type and admittedly unorganized, thus my search
for the perfect PIM. I developed a restaurant concept years ago using
Agenda and, still to this day, tout it's effectivenes.
The aspects I continue to pine for.
* One entry field for any type of entry.
* The intuitive nature of category recognition and automatic insertion,
ie. not having to "assign" anything. Calls, tasks, meetings, projects,
and any other "categories" we wish to create are all recognized,
inserted, and able to be sorted individually or by multiple categories.
* "Call David T. on wed regarding project x" would be placed on wed
calendar, with Davids name and number, and logged in project x. You
would be able to log the contents of that discussion as well in that
"call" and by topic if you choose.
* You could call up project x and have everything associated with it
listed and ready to sort by whatever categories you wish. I could see
all calls and content, meetings and notes, strategy notes, timelines,
etc.
The key here for me is speed, convenience and efficiency through the
intuitive nature of the program. The more I have to "interact" with a
program, the less I am apt to continue using it.
I apologize for the technical "crudeness" of this posting, but hope the
veiwpoint of a typical end-user that has burned through dozens of PIMs
might be somewhat helpful along the way.
KS
-----Original Message-----
From: chandler-users-bounces at osafoundation.org
[mailto:chandler-users-bounces at osafoundation.org] On Behalf Of Davor
Cubranic
Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 12:40 AM
To: Chandler users
Subject: Re: [chandler-users] Re: chandler-users Digest, Vol 15, Issue
22
I think you're expanding Agenda's auto-assignment to categories (which
assigned simply on occurrence of words or phrases in an item's
description) to smart folders/filters. The latter needs a more
complicated UI, especially because it will end up needing some kind of
graphical construction of those expressions (like in EccoPro) to be
really user-friendly. Not that having smart folders wouldn't be nice...
Davor
On Monday 24 March 2008 12:55:12 Carl Lemp wrote:
> What I picture as a first step is a Properties item on the right-click
> menu for the collections in the side-bar. On a properties dialog, I
> could add names/phrases to match (synonyms) for that collection and
> enable auto-assignment for the collection name and/or the synonyms.
> Something like the syntax and capabilities of Google's advanced search
> page would be convenient and easily understood by everybody; only
> using Triage status and item type instead of Language and File Type.
> Any items that matched would be assigned to the collection. In
> addition to ensuring that an item showed up everywhere it was
> relevant, this would allow me to treat collections as views into the
> database of items. To work well as a view, the rules would have to be
> applied to every item in the database so that I could define a new
> collection for an existing database and Chandler would search the
> entire database to assign all matching items to the new collection.
_______________________________________________
chandler-users mailing list
chandler-users at osafoundation.org
http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/chandler-users
------------------------------
Message: 12
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 10:14:09 -0500
From: "Mark A. Weiss" <MAWeiss at rencomm.com>
Subject: RE: [chandler-users] Re: chandler-users Digest, Vol 15, Issue
22
To: "Chandler users" <chandler-users at osafoundation.org>
Message-ID: <2112BFC73B32E64CAB4A2538C80E64F804F726D3 at etg2.etg.local>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
In my opinion, the beauty of Agenda was the elegantly simple ability to
enter text as a new item and have it automatically be assigned to either
a preexisting category or one that I might create after the fact. Its
ability to manage freeform information is what made it so great.
As an entrepreneur with multiple ideas for my businesses, I find myself
writing notes on paper to capture ideas. As these are not tasks or
meetings, I really don't have a way to capture these ideas in a way that
I can search or sort by topic. Agenda would work for my application if
there was a way to easily export my information. I don't want it stuck
in an application with no way to extract it.
This may sound like heresy but I don't have a need for another
calendar/CRM/PIM program. There are plenty of products out there
already (Act!, Goldmine, Outlook, etc.). I am currently using Outlook
on a Microsoft Exchange account and the Outlook Business Contact Manager
for my CRM. I am able to synch my TREO 750 PDA to the Exchange Server
to access my email, calendar, etc. remotely which is of key importance.
Not having remote access to my email is a deal breaker.
That's why an Agenda type solution as I described above would be great.
It could either be a part of Chandler or a standalone application.
Thanks for the opportunity to present my ideas.
Mark Weiss
_____________________________________
The Renaissance Communications Group
Marketing, Advertising & Public Relations Services
http://www.rencomm.com <http://www.rencomm.com/>
9270 Stonemist Trace, Roswell, GA 30076-4002
Office: 770.998.4769
Fax: 770.992.2988
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE:
This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain
privileged or confidential information. If you have received it in
error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any
other use of this email is prohibited.
From: chandler-users-bounces at osafoundation.org
[mailto:chandler-users-bounces at osafoundation.org] On Behalf Of Carl Lemp
Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 3:55 PM
To: chandler-users at osafoundation.org
Subject: [chandler-users] Re: chandler-users Digest, Vol 15, Issue 22
To everyone interested in auto-assignment of items:
It sounds like there are at least a few of us that have been patiently
waiting for Chandler to take on some of the capabilities that Agenda had
so long ago. I posted similar questions a few weeks ago and Grant
Baillie of OSAF has contacted me about building a plug-in for
auto-assignment of items to collections. If he can point me in the
right direction to get started, I'm willing to give it a shot. Here was
his first set of questions:
>So far as person-week estimates go, I guess it depends on which items
>you want to make auto-assignments on (e.g. the quick entry field?
>incoming mail? any newly created item?). Can you elaborate on what you
>had in mind, especially w.r.t. where you would expect to find
>collection names, and how the synonyms would be set up?
and my answer:
Ideally, I'd like all items to be auto-assigned either as they are added
or, on demand if there is no easy way to hook into events generated when
an item is added. I looked through the Chandler wiki and saw a couple
of references to rule based collections and there have been a couple of
references to rules by Mimi on the user list. If rule based collections
are planned or have already been worked on, is there anything to start
from there since what I'm looking for is just a specific type of rule
based collection?
What I picture as a first step is a Properties item on the right-click
menu for the collections in the side-bar. On a properties dialog, I
could add names/phrases to match (synonyms) for that collection and
enable auto-assignment for the collection name and/or the synonyms.
Something like the syntax and capabilities of Google's advanced search
page would be convenient and easily understood by everybody; only using
Triage status and item type instead of Language and File Type. Any
items that matched would be assigned to the collection. In addition to
ensuring that an item showed up everywhere it was relevant, this would
allow me to treat collections as views into the database of items. To
work well as a view, the rules would have to be applied to every item in
the database so that I could define a new collection for an existing
database and Chandler would search the entire database to assign all
matching items to the new collection.
An now a few questions for anyone who's interested in this feature:
Does this fit with everyone elses expectations of the way
auto-assignment should behave?
How complicated would you need the assignment rules to be?
Do you need the unassign actions from Agenda (When item is assigned to
X, unassign it from Y.)?
Regards,
Carl
----- Original Message ----
From: "chandler-users-request at osafoundation.org"
<chandler-users-request at osafoundation.org>
To: chandler-users at osafoundation.org
Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 3:00:04 PM
Subject: chandler-users Digest, Vol 15, Issue 22
Send chandler-users mailing list submissions to
chandler-users at osafoundation.org
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/chandler-users
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
chandler-users-request at osafoundation.org
You can reach the person managing the list at
chandler-users-owner at osafoundation.org
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of chandler-users digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. RE: Is Chandler the Successor to Lotus Agenda? (Jim Cook)
2. Re: Is Chandler the Successor to Lotus Agenda? (Davor Cubranic)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2008 18:58:21 -0400
From: Jim Cook <jimcook at panix.com>
Subject: RE: [chandler-users] Is Chandler the Successor to Lotus
Agenda?
To: Chandler users <chandler-users at osafoundation.org>
Message-ID: <20080323230328.270281628F at mailbackend.panix.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
<snip>
Like Mark Weiss and (undoubtedly) many others on this list, I've been
eagerly awaiting Chandler as the reincarnation of Agenda. Although
I've played with a few releases over the years, I haven't committed
myself for two main reasons: (1) Chandler doesn't auto-assign new
items, and (2) there are so many bugs. I do realize that Chandler is
arguably no buggier than any new software, and I acknowledge OSAF for
addressing Chandler's bugs publicly. But auto-assignment is
essential for me, because my work is so unstructured (and arguably
unstructureable).
Anyway, I'm not a programmer, so this may be a silly question, but
why has it been so difficult to implement auto-assignment in
Chandler? Did it just become a non-priority vs calendering and
collaboration? Or was there something about running on DOS (which
was barely more than a file loader) that facilitated doing
auto-assignment in Agenda?
And truly, thanks for all your work. I'm still eagerly (and
optimistically) awaiting Chandler 1.0.
At 12:45 PM 3/23/2008, you wrote:
>Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
>Davor,
>
>Thanks for the response. I too used Agenda and then Ecco Pro. I
>switched to Ecco after the company I was working for at the time
>adopted the Windows 3.1 platform. We were having problems running
>Agenda from Windows. If I remember correctly it crashed a lot. I
>moved away from Ecco after I purchased a Phillips Velo to replace my
>Zaurus. I couldn't sync the Velo to my Ecco data. I switched to
>Outlook about that time.
>
>You mentioned you were still using Agenda for some
>applications. Can I ask if and how you either print of export the
>data? I tend to write a lot of notes for my three businesses and
>community activities that I am engaged in. Currently I have a
>folder of paper notes looking for a searchable home. The notes are
>tasks and are not time/date driven. I Googled "Lotus Agenda" a few
>weeks ago to see if people were still using it. That's how I found
>about Chandler.
>
>Agenda would be the perfect solution for my application but I am
>reluctant to use it if I can't print or export my data. Any
>thoughts on how you address these issues would be most appreciated.
>
>Thanks!
>
>Mark
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: chandler-users-bounces at osafoundation.org
>[mailto:chandler-users-bounces at osafoundation.org] On Behalf Of Davor
Cubranic
>Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 1:21 AM
>To: Chandler users
>Subject: Re: [chandler-users] Is Chandler the Successor to Lotus
Agenda?
>
>Wow, has it really been that long since that announcement?
>
>But I agree, that's what first led me to Chandler, too. And there was a
>lot of Agenda in Chandler initially, reflecting Kapor's influence and
>those announcements, and actually there still is, underneath the UI.
>(See its data engine, with Items, attributes, and relations. I
>sometimes wonder if Chandler's UI could be ripped out and the engine
>used to re-implement Agenda's features and focus.) But calendaring took
>on more prominence with time, and collaboration has had as high a
>priority as personal information management as long as I've been
>following the project. Those are not bad things, either -- the way we
>use computers today is way different than what we did in the DOS years.
>
>And while Chandler is not Agenda, it still works well for me and I use
>it daily as my main information manager. It's better for keeping track
>of tasks, events, and to-dos than for pure information tidbits, so I
>still have some files that I started, and still maintain, in Agenda --
>they just don't translate that well to Chandler's work model and UI.
>Ditto with other tidbits that I still keep in EccoPro (esp. my address
>book!). But honestly, I don't know of another open-source calendaring
>or information management project that works better. (If you do, let me
>know. :-)
>
>Davor
>
>On Saturday 22 March 2008 18:48:47 Mark A. Weiss wrote:
> > Thanks Davor.
> >
> > I was searching Lotus Agenda and found Mitch Kapor's weblog from
> > 10/18/02 where he wrote:
> >
> > "The product, which is central to the whole undertaking, is a new
> > take on the Personal Information Manager. It will handle email,
> > appointments, contacts and tasks, as well as be used to exchange
> > information with other people, and do it all in the spirit of Lotus
> > Agenda, about which more here and here. Agenda, for those who aren't
> > familiar with it, was a DOS product I designed (along with Jerry
> > Kaplan) in the late 1980's which introduced a new kind of database
> > optimized for entering small items of information in a free-form
> > manner, and then adding organizational categories on-the-fly. It was
> > much beloved by a few, despite (or perhaps because) being abandoned
> > by Lotus."
> >
> > That search led me down the path to other postings that tied Agenda
> > to Chandler. OSAF changed direction somewhere down the line. It's
a
> > shame because an open source program with Agenda capabilities would
> > be an incredible asset. I imagine that many of the current Agenda
> > users would find it valuable too.
> >
> > Anyway, thanks again for your help.
> >
> > Mark
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: chandler-users-bounces at osafoundation.org
> > [mailto:chandler-users-bounces at osafoundation.org] On Behalf Of Davor
> > Cubranic Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2008 8:07 PM
> > To: Chandler users
> > Subject: Re: [chandler-users] Is Chandler the Successor to Lotus
> > Agenda?
> >
> > On Saturday 22 March 2008 15:52:21 Mark A. Weiss wrote:
> > > Thanks for the response. I am not a programmer, just a plain old
> > > end user. If the ability to parse information to categories on
the
> > > fly is not a core part of Chandler's features, why the talk about
> > > it being the successor to Agenda?
> >
> > I don't think I've heard anyone from OSAF make that claim in the
last
> > five years, if not longer. See blog.osafoundation.org
<http://blog.osafoundation.org/> for their (I'm
> > just a Chandler user, too) current vision and direction.
> >
> > Davor
> > _______________________________________________
> > chandler-users mailing list
> > chandler-users at osafoundation.org
> > http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/chandler-users
>_______________________________________________
>chandler-users mailing list
>chandler-users at osafoundation.org
>http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/chandler-users
>_______________________________________________
>chandler-users mailing list
>chandler-users at osafoundation.org
>http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/chandler-users
=
Jim Cook <jimcook at panix.com>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: PGP.sig
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 487 bytes
Desc: not available
Url :
http://lists.osafoundation.org/pipermail/chandler-users/attachments/2008
0323/c8b2d052/PGP-0001.pgp
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2008 16:22:25 -0700
From: Davor Cubranic <cubranic at cs.ubc.ca>
Subject: Re: [chandler-users] Is Chandler the Successor to Lotus
Agenda?
To: Chandler users <chandler-users at osafoundation.org>
Message-ID: <200803231622.25306.cubranic at cs.ubc.ca>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
On Sunday 23 March 2008 09:45:02 Mark A. Weiss wrote:
> You mentioned you were still using Agenda for some applications. Can
> I ask if and how you either print of export the data? I tend to
> write a lot of notes for my three businesses and community activities
> that I am engaged in. Currently I have a folder of paper notes
> looking for a searchable home. The notes are tasks and are not
> time/date driven. I Googled "Lotus Agenda" a few weeks ago to see if
> people were still using it. That's how I found about Chandler.
No, I don't either print or export the data from Agenda. The two Agenda
files that I still use have become sort of "write-only". :-) Fairly
regularly, I enter interesting-sounding wines recommended in a local
paper's wine column, as well as interesting books that I see in book
reviews. But I don't go back to older entries that often, to tell you
the truth, although it does happen every now and then.
Davor
------------------------------
_______________________________________________
chandler-users mailing list
chandler-users at osafoundation.org
http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/chandler-users
End of chandler-users Digest, Vol 15, Issue 22
**********************************************
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://lists.osafoundation.org/pipermail/chandler-users/attachments/20080325/22295261/attachment-0001.htm
------------------------------
Message: 13
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 21:36:22 -0700 (PDT)
From: Carl Lemp <clemp2002 at yahoo.com>
Subject: [chandler-users] Re: {Survey] What would you like to
auto-file?
To: Mimi Yin <mimi at osafoundation.org>, Chandler users
<chandler-users at osafoundation.org>
Cc: "Mark A. Weiss" <MAWeiss at rencomm.com>
Message-ID: <289717.23798.qm at web58306.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hi,
I'm not quite sure who I'm writing to anymore as the names in the address list keep changing so this might duplicate a previous response from me that you might or might not have seen.
I was looking for something that is simple to set up where there is no need to remember how the rules were defined when items are being added. Several examples: If I set up a collection named "Calls" and add the additional words to match "phone, telcon, telephone" then all items with any of those words anywhere in the title or the body should be auto-filed in the collection. That way, all the following items would end up in the collection since they have something to do with calling. "Call: John about house." Remember to phone John about the house plans.", or "review drawings for telcon about project plans next tuesday." That pattern would cover 75% of the rules. Another 20% would be more complicated with a query that says match items that include "plan" but exclude items that match "house" so that "Remember to phone John about the house plans." would not show up in the collection but "review drawings for telcon about project plans next tuesday"
would show up. The last 5% would be where a full query language would be handy similar to what Mimi described before: "Title ~ Calls" and "Item ~ house" and "Status != Done" and "Due Date < 1 week away"
Regards,
Carl
----- Original Message ----
From: Mimi Yin <mimi at osafoundation.org>
To: Chandler users <chandler-users at osafoundation.org>
Cc: Jim Cook <jimcook at panix.com>; Mark A. Weiss <MAWeiss at rencomm.com>; Carl Lemp <clemp2002 at yahoo.com>
Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 7:45:16 PM
Subject: {Survey] What would you like to auto-file?
Hi,
I've moved the design/implementation discussion for auto-
categorization over to the Chandler Development List - http://
lists.osafoundation.org/pipermail/chandler-dev/2008-March/009799.html
As that discussion unfolds, I'd like to collect some specific
examples of the kinds of things people would like to auto-file.
For example:
- When I type "Call:" at the beginning of the Title of an Item, I
want the Note to be auto-filed into a Calls collection.
Mimi
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://lists.osafoundation.org/pipermail/chandler-users/attachments/20080324/0cae3744/attachment.html
------------------------------
_______________________________________________
chandler-users mailing list
chandler-users at osafoundation.org
http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/chandler-users
End of chandler-users Digest, Vol 15, Issue 23
**********************************************
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://lists.osafoundation.org/pipermail/chandler-users/attachments/20080325/cb436e66/attachment.html
More information about the chandler-users
mailing list